ImetelChat

A poster I don't remember encountering before (Cheng_Ho) burst on the YMB scene today, denouncing Geron's 20 year old Telomerase inhibitor as being grossly out of date. And that this lab in Texas has a small molecule inhibitor far superior to Imetelstat that the FDA (everyone's boogeyman) is denying the light of day. Shay/Wright go far back with testing Imetelstat on lung cancer and seems have been working on their own Telomerase inhibitor. this poster even goes on to say (because my reply was deemed "disingenuous" (more like ignorant)) that Shay/Wright have a bunch of stock in GERN from their long ago collaboration making me wonder if Cheng_Ho is somehow connected to that lab or Geron in general (any Chinese scientists come to mind?).

This is the article he recommended reading:
Jan 2, 2015
Small Molecule Successfully Targets Telomerase to Destroy Cancer Cells
http://www.genengnews.com/gen-news-high ... /81250758/

-- he mentions this new inhibitor being on a magazine cover soon, and while the article names a magazine it doesnt say anything about being on the cover, further making me suspicious of his ties to the lab. Not that there is anything inherently unethical about that, other than not saying so from the onset.

(con't)

This is the YMB board interaction:
post: Shay-Wright lab released small-molecule telomerase inhibitor back in January
cheng_ho
623 posts | Last Activity: 9 hours ago
Member since: Jul 6, 1998
http://finance.yahoo.com/mbview/threadv ... 7023c91bde

...I tried to clean it up but the formatting didnt transfer...

cheng_ho • 11 hours ago

Shay-Wright lab released small-molecule telomerase inhibitor back in January
Google "small-molecule telomerase inhibitor Shay Wright".... the world has passed imetelstat by (as I said it would ten years ago... there's simply no comparison between imet and a real small-molecule drug).
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• beavertail_splash • 7 hours ago

but what about the Irish patient? or was that British patient?
o 1 Reply to beavertail_splash
o beaver_sux_circone_sux_2 • 4 hours ago

idiot short liar's reply to an idiot's post
• jkokao • 7 hours ago


Post hidden because you ignored this user
• moonshot_chippy • 8 hours ago

Shay-Wright-Lab the Aquisition Chippy Speaks Of? You sly Devil, Chippy
• carl0s_mr • 8 hours ago

"there's simply no comparison between imet and a real small-molecule drug" But but but.. " In summary, GRN163L is one of the first generation of small-molecule telomerase inhibitors for
the treatment of cancer" (from Jerry W. Shay and Woodring E. Wright). So you were wrong 10 years ago and today.. Less
o 1 Reply to carl0s_mr
o ryan_weisman2011 • 8 hours ago

Amen. Thanks Carl0s.
• scottmayhew2000 • 10 hours ago Remove

googled, as you said, and seems Shay and Wright worked WITH Geron on GRN163L for the treatment of lung cancer a long while back. What's your point?
o 1 Reply to scottmayhew2000
o cheng_ho • 9 hours ago

Are you being disingenous? Of course Shay-Wright "worked with" Geron, they have a bunch of the stock! But the imetelstat work is from 2003... the small-molecule drug result is from this January.
• cheng_ho • 11 hours ago

o
Imetelstat has been replaced by small-molecule inhibitors... it is unethical to subject patients to an ineffective RNA product when there are multiple small-molecule inhibitors. A cocktail of these small-molecule inhibitors could actually shorten telomeres fast enough to have a clinical effect.
o 1 Reply to cheng_ho
o scottmayhew2000 • 9 hours ago Remove
 1users liked this postsusers disliked this posts0
which small molecule telomerese inhibitors? which pharmas? where are the studies? what phases are they in? thanks for your input. I read the Shay website but didnt see what you are referring to.
 1 Reply to scottmayhew2000
 cheng_ho • 9 hours ago

Here's one link (or as much as yahoo will allow, it's from genengnews). But if you just google "small molecule telomerase inhibitors" you'll get lots of recent studies.

/gen-news-highlights/small-molecule-successfully-targets-telomerase-to-destroy-cancer-cells/81250758/
 2 Replies to cheng_ho
 kpail • 8 hours ago

Cheng,
I googled "small molecule telomerase inhibitors" and found that SOME of the articles are in English. What would I google to get a similar catch of articles about the BTX/AST stuff?
 kpail • 9 hours ago

Thank you, Cheng. I shall try.
• cheng_ho • 11 hours ago

This is really good news for cancer patients... as long as they have access to a clinic outside the reach of the FDA.
o 1 Reply to cheng_ho
o scottmayhew2000 • 9 hours ago Remove
the FDA serves an important function.
 2 Replies to scottmayhew2000
 cheng_ho • 9 hours ago

Did you look up the Shay-Wright small-molecule results? Telomerase inhibition is one of the biggest improvements in the history of medicine... and if we can use a cocktail of three small molecules, then we can really make it work (the cancer won't be able to evolve around it except by going ALT... and ALT cancers aren't nearly as healthy as telomerase-positive ones, plus it's a tough mutation to make. Most cancer would just die). Less
 1 Reply to cheng_ho
 kpail • 9 hours ago


Cheng,
Check me here. JNJ owns the rights to Imet for all INDS. BTX/AST owns the rights to the stem cell drugs. GERN retains the patents in all cases. Nest paw?
 2 Replies to kpail
 hayflicklim • 6 hours ago

Reply
If you read the patents Geron has a very strong patent estate and we are fairly sure there is second generation telomerase inhibitor and in my opinion geron owns it Do you know who Helen Blau is? age reversal in cells at i think at Stanford check out Gregg Morin and pGRN155 try to figure out when he did it and compare the dates Less
 cheng_ho • 9 hours ago

Yes, and that's the point... imet is 20 years out of date. Only small-molecule inhibitors matter, and GERN has the rights to none of them!!!@
 cheng_ho • 9 hours ago

Fine, if you think so, I'm happy to have YOU banned from using new treatments. But shouldn't I be allowed to try something not already proved to fail? Remember, this benefits you... you would get the results from the tests, if the FDA weren't chasing everything new to clinics in Shanghai and Krung... More
 1 Reply to cheng_ho
 scottmayhew2000 • 9 hours ago Remove
 1users liked this postsusers disliked this posts0
All I said is they serve an important function. Are you saying there is no use for the FDA?
 1 Reply to scottmayhew2000
 cheng_ho • 9 hours ago
Reply
I am saying that there is no reason for them to have power to stop terminally ill patients from trying something that MIGHT work. That one reform would speed up medical progress by a factor of ten.

(For my own safety, I would prefer competing private test agencies... but that's much less important than pulling the FDA's cartelization power. It's a medieval guild organization in the 21st century.)

any thoughts?

Not sure if this lab is private, but if it were, maybe Scarlett is referring to it when he discusses acquisitions. Of course, most investors probably hope it is Asterias he wants to buy, but that cat seems out of the bag now and no way going back in.

It's a remarkable thread, indeed.

It is important to know if Geron patents are covering this development. In addition, we don't know what Geron and JnJ are having under the hood themselves regarding imet 2.0. As soon as imetelstat has convincingly proven to be a safe and effective drug, the field of telomerase inhbition will rapidly become crowded with improvements and alternatives. There will be enormous pressure on Geron to keep up with these developments, otherwise JnJ may start looking out for alternatives. That's why I think that whatever Scarlet has in mind regarding diversification, it will be something that will improve imetelstat.

I find it interesting that after the January publicity, it became rather silent about this lab. Compare this with the gene editing and CRSPR! Although I didn't thoroughly have researched it, I can't recall that they have presented at some of the recent big events. I strongly doubt that after this silence somebody from the Shay Wright Lab would choose a medium such as YMB to suddenly go out with this story. Why would they do that? What would Cheng achieve with starting this discussion on a public form for investors? Why not publicize in all kinds of magazines?

Ergo: I consider the chance as very small that this Cheng is directly related to the Shay Wright Lab. If I had to guess I would say that it is more likely that Geron is talking with this lab about cooperation. Shouting out publicly on a YMB is not an obvious part of that.

Btw: Geron has a small staff and works with people and partners at a basis of consultancy (see 10-K). Could it be that they have hired the Shay Wright Lab to outsource certain aspects of the further imet development?

Just my 10 cents.

Fish, ever notice how we don't know much about Geron's IP? (Paging Hoosier, paging Hoosier). Okarma for what its worth once said something to the effect "If you want to get to telomerase, you have to go through Geron". The secretive nature of Geron needs no elucidation here. If there are other telomerase inhibitors of importance, what overlap production and identification IP issues there might be are unknown to us. I will speculate that Geron had a pretty uncluttered period of time to learn all they could about the telomere and telomerase in particular before others got interested. Other academic centers (Colorado, Texas) have been working with Geron and have licensed some IP if I remember correctly. Also it is worth remembering that the law is pretty clear that a company cannot patent a gene (it is naturally occurring), Geron claimed to have cloned the telomere so there must be extensive IP related to this accomplishment, even if they can't own the gene this might have impact on IP ownership of other telomerase inhibitors, their structure and production. This is all speculation on my part as I try to understand the claims of master cheng ho. bp

Another thought, this is from Geron's web site:

<<Our patent rights relating to imetelstat which have been exclusively licensed to Janssen for all disorders or medical conditions include those covering the nucleic acid sequence of hTR, the RNA component of telomerase, against which the oligonucleotide component of imetelstat is targeted; composition claims to the drug molecule and related telomerase inhibiting molecules; the amidate nucleic acid chemistry used in the oligonucleotide; as well as manufacturing processes for the drug, and method of treatment and kit claims, certain of which are co-owned by us.>>

I somehow think master Cheng's small molecule will have trouble penetrating this barrier. (a little joke there in case you missed it...) bp

Bio, you brought me to the idea of starting a discussion on Geron patents. I started a new topic on it. Thanks!

A poster I don't remember encountering before (Cheng_Ho) burst on the YMB scene today

Well, I've been posting with the rest of the yahoos at least since 2003, but it's understandable that you wouldn't notice... the YMB is filled with messages, but not with information.

In fact, I've been posting since before GRN163L... someone reposted one of my ancient posts that was commenting on GRN163 (no lipid tail) to "prove" that I am a secret short... because we know that hedge funds spend a lot of time on Yahoo message boards

I am interested in investing... in companies with earnings. Trading GERN stock isn't in my risk range. My interest in telomerase inhibition is the same as any other carbon-based life form (that doesn't have multiple copies of p53, as the pachyderms [and whales?] do)... I'd like to see cancer therapies get out of the lab. Optimally, such therapies would be individualized and kill only your cancer cells, without (as W. Wright always says) "whacking the whole body with a baseball bat and hoping it bothers the cancer more". But telomerase inhibition fits the FDA approval model, could be cheap, and could actually work on non-ALT cancer... if we had a multi-drug cocktail.

I'll skip right to what I don't know: how much GERN patents (or other patents) would interfere with anyone putting together a telomerase-inhibition cocktail. They have antisense locked up, but I don't know what else Woody's patents would affect.

Hi Cheng, good question, To answer it will need a good overview of the patents. I don't have such overview and would hope that together we could establish one. I opened a separate topic on that.